tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6965911108994118500.post1958425894748576846..comments2016-06-15T04:31:26.640-04:00Comments on Ready with a Reason: Response to WW14 on FBC March 19, 2009 Baptism CommentsReadyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13825613655695520319noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6965911108994118500.post-59190172858430762802009-09-21T12:10:40.678-04:002009-09-21T12:10:40.678-04:00Thanks, Paul, for your comments. Looks like you h...Thanks, Paul, for your comments. Looks like you have done even more research into "eperōtēma" than I have. I'll look into it a bit more myself... For now, thanks for your contribution!<br /><br />Also, I think the Justin text conceals any of his thoughts about infant baptism. He seems to be speaking directly about people who are passed the age of reason, in which case his description is true. I'm also fascinated by the possibility that Justin's explanations are colored, to some extent, by his audience. I haven't studied his first apology deeply enough to draw conclusions in this regard, but my suspicion is that Justin's strategies (and omissions) are as much about his audience as the theological landscape that he (and other early-second century Christians) inhabited.<br /><br />I could be wrong, though. I'll do some more research on this passage. In the meantime, feel free to weigh in...<br /><br />Thanks again for your comments!Readyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13825613655695520319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6965911108994118500.post-71130902511125547882009-09-21T08:35:56.415-04:002009-09-21T08:35:56.415-04:00Okay, while you're commenting on such things, ...Okay, while you're commenting on such things, let me ask:<br /><br />Justin Martyr (A.D. 155, Rome) writes in <i>First Apology</i> 61 that the purpose of baptism that they learned from the apostles is:<br /><br />"at our birth we were born without our knowledge or choice—by our parents coming together—and we were brought up in bad habits and wicked training.<br /> "So that we would not remain the children of necessity and ignorance but become the children of choice and knowledge, and so that we may obtain in the water the forgiveness of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over the the person who chooses to be born again, and who has repented of their sins, the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe."<br /><br />It seems like Justin Martyr's giving a reason for baptism that precludes infant baptism.<br /><br />I know that Irenaeus makes a comment, 30 years later, about infants being born again. I know that everything in the 3rd century is for infant baptism.<br /><br />Do you have any explanations for this anomaly--the earliest statement that clearly applies to infant baptism--other than they didn't baptize babies in Rome in the mid-2nd century?Paul Pavaohttp://www.christian-history.org/infant-baptism.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6965911108994118500.post-64724298886315685122009-09-21T08:29:03.322-04:002009-09-21T08:29:03.322-04:00I'm not Catholic, and I've had my share of...I'm not Catholic, and I've had my share of disagreements with Catholics, but ...<br /><br />It is humorous that Protestants believe 1 Pet 3:21 says, "Baptism now saves us (but it doesn't really save us."<br /><br />Doesn't it make much more sense that Peter is explaining <b><i>how</i></b> baptism saves us in the parentheses, rather than explaining that he didn't mean what he just said.<br /><br />Also on the word pledge/answer, I really don't understand either translation. I looked up the Greek word there in every lexicon I could find, even a Liddel-Scott's I had to get from a library.<br /><br />The word is a noun version of a pretty common verb: "to ask." It's only used once in Scripture. However, Liddel-Scott said it's used twice in other contemporary Greek sources, and it means there what the noun form of "to ask" seems like it would mean: request or plea.<br /><br />The NASB translates it that way, saying baptism is the plea to God for a good consience. In my words, it's the apostles' version of the sinner's prayer.<br /><br />That's my 2 cents, I want to ask you about an early Christian quote on the topic of infant baptism. I'll add a comment for that.Paul Pavaohttp://www.christian-history.org/water-baptism-quotes.htmlnoreply@blogger.com